tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33033023.post613784518424246826..comments2023-03-22T06:19:16.614-05:00Comments on emergentokc: Robert Webber and Prayer in the Face of Cancer ...greghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17807779839417584388noreply@blogger.comBlogger1125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-33033023.post-13742992070690346942007-02-24T17:23:00.000-06:002007-02-24T17:23:00.000-06:002 "follow up" thoughts on Thursday's discussion.1)...2 "follow up" thoughts on Thursday's discussion.<BR/><BR/>1) Only God is good. All goodness comes from God. I believe this is true and scriptural. If so, then any good that happens in the world comes ultimately from God. Saying this does not tie good events directly to intercessory prayers, but it seems like it might be a helpful thing to remember in this conversation. If a good event happens, we should give God the credit. If I do a good thing (happened once, I promise), I don't get the credit -- God does. If I do a good thing, then, it is because God is doing something.<BR/><BR/>2) Gratuitous evil exists. Ref. Dostoyevsky in <I>Brothers Karamazov.</I> Sometimes it comes via humans, sometimes via "natural causes." But, is it true that it is not only <I>humans</I> that are fallen, but also <I>the creation?</I> (Rom. 8:18ff). I, like Ivan, reject the idea that there is some "grand plan" that will make all the evil in the world ultimately "make sense," that one day we will all see the "grand tapestry" that will make all the evil seem justified. That would mean, first of all, that "evil" doesn't really exist -- it's just disguised good. Second, it makes God into a Machievellian god -- a despot who has to resort to desperate means to keep his power, and for whom all means are justified in that endeavor.<BR/><BR/>So, ultimately, I can embrace both true human freedom and quantum mechanics. Yes, Virginia, God <I>does</I> play dice with the universe. Or at least, true chance exists. If it didn't, there would be no human freedom. Though I believe God is "more intimate to me than I am to myself," I think that is a <I>non-coercive</I> presence. God acts persuasively, in other words.<BR/><BR/>3) So I lied, there's more than 2. If God acts persuasively, can God also be persuaded? <BR/><BR/>And Danny (Dannie?) now says: so why doesn't s/he always do that? To which Greg replies: God is a "she." No more need be said.<BR/><BR/>Just kidding. However, this forces me to conclude that God does not micro-manage the universe. I become almost Deist here, I suppose, except I still believe God is present to it all, and (with Aquinas) that he "feels" the pain of human beings more deeply than we feel it ourselves. <BR/><BR/>Further, I don't think this is the "best of all possible worlds." I can't answer the question of why God didn't create it that way, but I do see the promise of Scripture that the "re-creation" will indeed be that "best of all worlds." This world becomes that one. That's why this world groans in labor pains (Rom. 8 again).<BR/><BR/>So: when I pray, I become more intimate with God, and therefore more intimate with what God is working toward in his creation, and more willing to be part of it. Prayer that does not result in a change in the pray-er isn't really prayer, just as worship that doesn't create a change in the worshipper isn't really worship. <BR/><BR/>Does prayer result in a change of God's will? Not in the "cosmic" sense -- but perhaps, now and then, in some very limited sense if it does not ask God to coerce the will of some other human being.<BR/><BR/>chipchiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04426775131776281207noreply@blogger.com